Speaker 1: 0:01

You, you created this post. I'm going to kind of dissect and kind of go through this post with you. It said I don't know everything. Shocker, right, that's shocker, it stopped right there I was like whoa, wait a minute, this guy does not know everything we thought you were all knowing the all-powerful laws.

Speaker 1: 0:14

It really does stop you, because that's not something you see on Facebook. At what point did you did you begin to accept that not knowing everything is not only okay, but also a beautiful part of life? Welcome to the New Horizons podcast. I'm Brian Curie.

Speaker 3: 0:29

And I'm Shauna Curie, also known as Mr and Mrs Killer B, in virtual reality.

Speaker 1: 0:33

So this podcast is recorded live from the metaverse at the Killer B studios.

Speaker 3: 0:38

Where real life stories and experiences are shared in a way only the metaverse can offer.

Speaker 1: 0:43

With that, let's go ahead and dive into today's episode. I reached out to Joel because he put a post out on Facebook and I texted him a while back and said, joel, would you like to come and talk to us about that post? And he said he would love to Arcane. Can you hit that guest intro music and everybody, let's throw some confetti for our guest, joel Vaughn, that will be joining us tonight at the Killer Bee Studios. Joel, come on out, yahoo, he's on top of the desk and everything. I love you. I got to clean all this off. Your shoes are filthy, man.

Speaker 2: 1:23

Sorry, I do run a lot so he's training for a marathon. I am training for a marathon, are you really I?

Speaker 1: 1:32

am. Oh, when is this? When is the marathon?

Speaker 2: 1:36

october 20, something I don't know. My see, my wife is training for a half.

Speaker 2: 1:39

I've done a lot of half marathons, but I've never done done a full marathon, and so I was like I wanted to make sure she got to that point in training where she could run 13 miles on her own and she basically did last week. So I'm super proud of her and I was like, okay, so she can do this, she doesn't need me anymore. So I want to see can I do the marathon? Because it's been a goal of mine since forever marathon, because it's it's been a goal of mine since like forever.

Speaker 2: 2:04

So, wow, wow, that's amazing and I do I really do run next to a dog park and I really do have to dodge a lot of poo. So sorry about your desk sorry about my desk.

Speaker 3: 2:14

Good thing it's black oh man, exactly it's black and it's, you know, fake yeah, it's fake that's good too.

Speaker 2: 2:24

My shoes are actually pretty clean in Horizon Worlds apparently.

Speaker 1: 2:28

Okay, before we get started on this topic, how many of you were here at the Christmas event and heard Joel? I was, Okay, cool, Okay. Do you guys remember I've got to bring this up. Do you guys remember at the end, like we always come up and do selfies or I guess ussies or whatever they call them a group picture together? And if we all got up to get our picture together and then everybody was like, hey, where's Joel? And he was gone, I was like, I don't know if any of you guys remember that. So, Joel, go ahead and tell them what happened.

Speaker 2: 2:56

So it was a crazy night for one because I was filling in playing drums for another band, but I also was the opening band that night, so I played a song in here for you guys, then I ran on stage, played drums, came back, played another song and then, while I was sitting there, their show ended and the tour bus driver. So I was on a tour bus. I was sitting on a tour bus with my headset on and while I'm sitting there talking to you guys and then getting ready for the group picture, suddenly I feel myself moving and I'm like, oh, what's going on? You know this kind of thing and I'll be like, oh, it'll be all right. I didn't really know what would happen. They were backing the tour bus up to the loadout dock and so I didn't realize that because I was no longer stationary in that boundary, that I was just floating away.

Speaker 2: 3:50

And so I literally like he drove off and so my character floated away and I couldn't get back in. It was kind of funny. I was like, if there's a way to go out that's the way to do it.

Speaker 3: 4:00

It's the way to do it Exactly. It was hilarious.

Speaker 1: 4:02

He said that he saw his arms getting really long. Oh dude, my arms got like 250 feet long.

Speaker 2: 4:08

I was like what?

Speaker 1: 4:09

He's like what's happening to me? I've never experienced this.

Speaker 2: 4:12

That is so funny, he's like stretch Armstrong. That's what it felt like. That's what it felt like I was like oh nope, I'm going and I'm gone.

Speaker 3: 4:22

I love it.

Speaker 1: 4:22

That's hilarious, that's great. Joel, for those here that maybe don't know you, why don't you take about 30 seconds and let everybody know who Joel Vaughn is?

Speaker 2: 4:30

So my name is Joel Vaughn. We've established that I live in Nashville, Tennessee. I've been married for 18 years. We have two kids, Olivia and Levi. They are 8 and 13,. So the 13-year-old is going on 30, and the 8-year-old is very much an 8-year-old. He's the one that held the shoe in front of my face the first time I was with you guys. We've lived in Nashville for 8 years now. We transplanted here from Amarillo, Texas, which is basically ugly Colorado. It's not like the rest of Texas because it gets snow, and when I say snow I mean like a foot of snow and pretty consistently it's just. It turns brown and disgusting pretty quick and it's windy. It is the windiest city in America. Chicago and Amarillo go back and forth on who's the windiest city in America.

Speaker 2: 5:26

Amarillo is at the base of the Rockies, so you have the Rocky Mountains Beautiful, picturesque, and then you have the plains and the panhandles, and so that's where I'm in. We were in the dirty part of America, but it was home. When my music career took off and I signed a record deal, it just made sense for us to make the move to Nashville, so Wow.

Speaker 3: 5:50

Is that to say that you moved right when you were having your eight year old?

Speaker 2: 5:54

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 5:56

So that was our 10.

Speaker 2: 5:57

So we had been married 10 years. Uh, we celebrated our 10th anniversary. I turned 30. My daughter turned five, my son was born, and then we sold our house and packed up and moved three months later.

Speaker 3: 6:13

I do not recommend it. Exactly. I do not recommend it 10 out of 10 do not recommend.

Speaker 2: 6:21

Hindsight is it's more than 2020 on that one. But, yeah, I was like I signed a record deal. I have a top billboard charting song right now. Nothing, the world is my oyster, nothing can go wrong. And then it did.

Speaker 1: 6:35

So how many of you are on Facebook? Let me ask you that how many of you are here on Facebook, okay? How many of you are on Instagram, me, okay. So, joel, is it the same as what your name is on here?

Speaker 2: 6:48

Yeah, it's Joel Vaughn. Music on everything Joel Vaughn.

Speaker 1: 6:50

Music Okay. So if you want to learn more about his running, just don't follow him. If you don't want to learn about it, don't follow him. If you do want to learn about his running and his music, make sure you follow Joel Vaughn Music on Instagram and Facebook on Instagram and Facebook.

Speaker 3: 7:02

Yeah, even if you don't like running, you'll still want to follow him because of the music.

Speaker 1: 7:05

Well and I think you're going to like this one too, cause you know I really want to I want to say, joe, I really like again the running things. I swipe past. I'm like, yeah, okay, I'm not doing that, I'm not doing it.

Speaker 1: 7:20

but I really enjoy it when I see people being really open about life, what's going on, their thoughts. And you created this post. I want to kind of dissect and kind of go through this post with you and then ask you your thoughts so you can share with people. And remember, guys, if you guys have a question or a thought, just go click that Q&A and we'll bring you up as soon as we find a good spot to bring you up so you can ask questions and share your thoughts as well. Joe, your post starts off with an interesting statement. It said I don't know everything.

Speaker 2: 7:52

Shocker, right that's shocker.

Speaker 1: 7:54

It stopped right there. I was like whoa wait a minute, this guy does not know everything.

Speaker 2: 7:57

We thought you were all knowing the all-powerful laws.

Speaker 1: 7:59

I thought he was like me, he knew all things. But the more I read it, the more I'm like okay, this guy got something to say. It really does stop you, because that's not something you see on Facebook, right, everybody knows everything and everybody else knows nothing. So when I saw that I don't know everything, it really stopped me in that scroll. So can you share? Let's start here. Can you share what inspired you to post that?

Speaker 2: 8:24

Interesting anecdote. I just finished running eight miles on a treadmill and I sat down to write that. So anyway, I just I thought. I thought you might find that funny, wow. No, I you know honestly, I had to scroll back to the post to remember cause you said, hey, let's talk about that, and I was like, what did I even say on that post?

Speaker 2: 8:45

I'm sure there's a nugget of wisdom in there, probably, and I kind of had to read through it myself and I was like, oh, past me, you. Actually you did know something. So, yeah, I dove into that post and wrote it. I really can't remember that day. It was June 12th of this year. So I've been all over America since then.

Speaker 2: 9:08

I don't really remember what inspired it, other than I have a lot of people usually independent artists or people looking to get into music that have questions like how do I do this, how do I write a song, or like how do I become a Christian, or like just an artist or write music and that sort of thing, and a lot of people come to me for advice and I'm so appreciative and like that that they'll even do that. I think that's awesome. I'm like, wow, they think I know a lot of stuff, they think I know everything. And sometimes I get questions that stump me and I'm like you know, I don't know there's a professional for that or whatever.

Speaker 2: 9:46

So I said it tongue in cheek that I don't know everything, because I oftentimes get asked questions like do these people really think I know everything Because I don't know everything? So I guess in that context I was really addressing people that are looking to do kind of what I do or people that are in ministry, and so I just kind of shared my heart of where I started and how I got to where I was. But that the beauty and this is where it translates to everyone, not just musicians, not just pastors or anything like that the beauty and the fact that you don't know everything and you never will is a good thing, because that means you're still learning the post is very.

Speaker 1: 10:30

It's a very long post and we'll have to share it, I'll share it. No, that's right. I thought he wrote it for the whole eight miles. You said you ran, I think the whole eight miles.

Speaker 2: 10:38

No, I mean, I wrote it. I don't know how long it took me to write it. I was probably sitting there for about 20 minutes typing that up, I'm sure.

Speaker 1: 10:44

I was going to say that my fingers have been cramping.

Speaker 2: 10:46

I mean, oh, yeah, no, I can't write while I'm on the treadmill.

Speaker 3: 10:48

I'll be like that would be a whole different post, wouldn't it? Yeah, that would be the post about.

Speaker 2: 10:54

I'm in the hospital.

Speaker 1: 10:58

Well, in the post okay, I'm going to dissect this more here you said you shared in your post that you have a special love for knowledge, music and then some ancient reading. So, okay, I want to first do a fact check on this. Okay, let's do it All right. All right, you put in that post that you read two sets of encyclopedias.

Speaker 2: 11:20

I have two sets of encyclopedias, a red set and a blue set. Encyclopedia Britannicas yeah, and you read all two sets. Oh yeah, I mean I started when I was like three and went through until I was like seven and I had read those things back and forth and obviously by the time I'm seven, eight years old. I'm like I skipped all the things that I didn't want to read, but I read all the things that I wanted to read.

Speaker 2: 11:44

Those were my favorite books. I was gutted when I found out that my mom had sold them in a yard sale in 2005. She was like I didn't think anybody wanted these. You went to college. I was like, well, I'm going to take two stacks of encyclopedias to college, mom in 2005 in 2005 come on or 2004, but still I had a tiny dorm room. What am I going to do with those?

Speaker 1: 12:09

anyway, yeah, I don't understand how. I don't understand how somebody would sit down and read an encyclopedia has anybody here throw some confetti has anybody here sat down I understand that. Oh, I mean read a read a confetti. Read the pictures in the encyclopedia, didn't even have.

Speaker 2: 12:24

They weren't even in color and then I found out I felt like I was getting gypped because I found out that, uh, there were encyclopedias that had colored pictures.

Speaker 1: 12:33

When I got older, I was like this is a thing that's a thing, yeah I wish I could remember which set of encyclopedias.

Speaker 2: 12:39

we had Gen Z kids get all the cool stuff.

Speaker 3: 12:41

I know that's so true. I remember when my dad bought us the, you know, was it like a door-to-door salesperson that sold the encyclopedias to your family?

Speaker 2: 12:50

Yeah, that's what my parents told me, because they bought them before I was born.

Speaker 3: 12:53

Wow, wow they said. Oh, they said it was a door to door salesman.

Speaker 2: 12:56

The other set, I think, came from my grandfather.

Speaker 3: 12:59

Makes sense. Yeah, yeah, I remember the day when the door to door salesman came and, you know, showed us these encyclopedias and I was in love. I mean, I was an encyclopedia reader as well. I don't think I read the entire set, though I was, like you know, picking and choosing pretty hard.

Speaker 2: 13:16

Right.

Speaker 3: 13:19

But I remember when they came to the door and I thought my dad will never buy these. They're pretty expensive. My dad had made it pretty clear that we didn't have a lot of money and he bought them, and now, looking back, I see it as such a gesture of love. You know, encyclopedias for crying out loud yeah, but I have a really deep memory about that too.

Speaker 2: 13:38

Encyclopedias for me out loud yeah but I have a really deep memory about that too doesn't make me think love, but I'll get there in a second go ahead I also had a love for national geographic magazine, but my grandparents slapped them out of my hands because apparently there was some not so pg stuff oh, yeah, african ladies, yeah, yeah, yeah they're like. They're like, hey, you don't need that. I was like, oh, but the lions and stuff there's like there's a lot more than lions, buddy. So I was like encyclopedias it is there's bears in here.

Speaker 1: 14:06

They're burying it all. Come on, I don't know like I remember encyclopedias because, like I'd be like hey, mom and dad, I'm trying to figure out this. How can I just like go look it up in the encyclopedia and I'm like no.

Speaker 2: 14:21

See, I love looking at the encyclopedias. I was like, oh no.

Speaker 1: 14:25

See, the furthest I got was like, even looking at the binder where it says like this covers A through D, I'm like that's enough for me, I'm done. See, that's what I love.

Speaker 2: 14:40

It's like A apples sweet. I'm gonna go grab this and yeah and dude, this is, this is. This is a turbo nerd moment. I I was known to have my webster's dictionary open here and then my encyclopedia open here and like just yeah that's how you learn.

Speaker 3: 14:52

Oh, there's this. There's this meme that I love and it says don't judge people who mispronounce things, because they probably learned all of their big words from reading and you don't necessarily learn how to pronounce words well, from reading.

Speaker 2: 15:05

I love that. Hope don't phonics work for me. It's not encyclopedia, that's for sure.

Speaker 1: 15:14

Oh my gosh, I mean, when you wrote that I was like, wow, he actually read that's an interesting fact to know about, it is interesting. So OK, let's go down a little bit more on this. So you also mentioned that you've earned a. I mean again, you have a love for knowledge, you love to learn. So you mentioned that you, you have actually earned a broadcasting degree and a master's in education. So at what point did you begin to accept that not knowing everything is not only okay, but also a beautiful part of life?

Speaker 2: 16:08

Probably after earning my bachelor's degree. Getting that piece of paper was validation. My parents went back to school when I was in the ninth grade. That's why we ended up in Texas. My parents were born and raised in Alabama, like Birmingham, alabama, and so that's kind of where I grew up for the most. Well, the first half of my life was in Mississippi and Alabama and so we transplanted to Texas when I was a teenager and they went back to school to get their degrees and they always kind of drilled in our heads that education is really, really important and my mom really wanted me to get a college degree so that I would get ahead in life and have kind of a leg up in a way that she didn't necessarily and so didn't necessarily. And so I earned that bachelor's degree after good grief.

Speaker 2: 17:06

What's funny is I couldn't make my mind up on what I wanted as a kid. I knew exactly what I wanted to do and then I figured out oh, I'm not good with math, I don't want to be an engineer after all. And that's when I was in my encyclopedia phase. I was like I want to build tall buildings. I would look at the World Trade Pictures of the World Trade Center and the Empire State Building and stuff like that. I was like I want to build that. And then my mom would be like, yeah, you're gonna have to be good at math, son. And so I was like, okay, I'll figure that testing. I don't even remember what they called it back then, but in the fifth grade I had a senior level, like 11th to 12th grade reading and comprehension and English level in the fifth grade. And then math. I had a third grade math level. So what that means is I was really smart linguistically, I was an avid reader and I was kind of an idiot with math, and so I figured out real quick I'm not going to be an engineer and I'm fine with that.

Speaker 2: 18:13

But in that mix is when I found out that I can sing. Like I was singing in the back of the car and harmonizing, and I remember I'm sitting there in the van and both my parents turned back and look at me and they're like are you harmonizing? I was like I don't know what that means. They're like he's matching pitch and all that. And so I was like, hey, I am pretty good at this.

Speaker 2: 18:31

And so I figured out I wanted to be a musician, but I didn't know how that worked out with education, and I'm not the type of person to say you have to go to college, or you need to go to college to be a musician or anything you don't. Honestly, this day and time, it probably behooves you to not go to college if you want to be a traveling musician. But I knew that it was important for my family and important for me because I had a hunger and a thirst for knowledge to just to go and figure it out, and so it took me a while to figure out what my major even was. I went for music and then I found out music theory is boring, it's just like math it sucks. And so I actually dropped out of music.

Speaker 2: 19:12

And then I found a love, because I love technology. I found a love in broadcast communication, and so I earned my bachelor, a love in broadcast communication. And so I earned my bachelor's degree in broadcast communication. And that was the point where I was like, okay, what I found is technology changes all the time. All the time. If you're not up on it, if you're not reading into it, if you're not keeping up with it, it leaves you behind in months, and so no piece of paper that validates you in that like, hey, you're a smart guy. That's only going to last so long. Learning is a lifelong thing and technology and production has taught me that, and that's when I finished my degree. In a long answer is when I figured that out.

Speaker 1: 19:57

Wow, and then I still went back and got a master's degree.

Speaker 2: 20:00

anyway, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 20:03

Because you love for knowledge, you still love knowledge.

Speaker 2: 20:06

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:06

But I mean, I think that's a pretty good thing to learn, especially going through all the learning. I mean gosh, I have to admit. I mean there's times that I feel like, oh, I know it all and I have not read. I mean there's times that I feel like, oh, I know it all and I have not read two sets of Encyclopedia. I don't have a master's, I don't.

Speaker 2: 20:25

I know a little bit about a lot of things and it's so funny, I feel like when we're in the van, not in the tour bus, because when you're in a tour bus everybody's kind of to themselves, but when we're traveling in the van or if we're in an airplane, it's like the band, it's always like. A lot of the guys that work for me are in their 20s, so like 20 to 27 years old, and they just it's like a game for them, like testing my knowledge or something, and they'll just ask me a question about something random.

Speaker 2: 20:53

I don't even know that, I'm not smart enough to pick up on what they're doing, but I'm smart enough to answer their dumb question. So it's like wait, this is a bit right now you guys are just trying to see if Joel knew something about coffee beans that were ingested by some mere cat looking thing. That sold for $200 an ounce, yeah, so yeah, I know about stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 21:16

When I first saw your post, it caught my attention because of being in places where I felt like I needed to know it all, like I needed to be able to prove people, to show them like, like not that, even as much as that, that I'm important, but that like there's value in what I do, yeah, and and there is and there is yeah, and I think that.

Speaker 1: 21:36

But we can get in the mindset of thinking that I have to know it all or I'm not going to be, I'm not going to have any value, or that knowledge.

Speaker 2: 21:46

You wear that not just as your validation. But that is you and it's it's not.

Speaker 1: 21:54

It's a part of you yes, well, you know, as you, as we went through this one, as I continue to read, because I went through the whole post again before, before we connect exactly because, again, it's, it's like a, it's, it's like a half of a set, of an encyclopedia set.

Speaker 2: 22:11

The post is it's not like I did it overnight.

Speaker 1: 22:15

I'm not rain man, yeah, yeah well, you do know you can build buildings in here.

Speaker 2: 22:21

I don't, I mean we both oh yeah, I know I'm great with math.

Speaker 1: 22:24

So, uh, but I'm not. People's lives aren't on the line for this, yeah yeah, you don't need an actual engineer.

Speaker 2: 22:32

I have a broadcast engineering degree, not an engineering degree. I don't want to drop a 400 pound light light on somebody's head, which, incidentally, I do hang very heavy lights at concerts.

Speaker 1: 22:42

So there's that too, right. Can you give us a warning before, like what concerts you're hanging lights at before? I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2: 22:49

I don't hang the lights.

Speaker 1: 22:50

That's also not true.

Speaker 3: 22:50

Careful where we stand, I have hung lights.

Speaker 2: 22:53

I have been known to take line array speakers and crank them up in the air and pray to the Lord that they don't fall down.

Speaker 1: 23:01

Everybody in the studio. These lights were not hung by Joel Vaughn, so you're all good.

Speaker 3: 23:05

Yeah, you're safe, you're safe.

Speaker 1: 23:08

You talked about. There's a part in here that really started grabbing my attention and I know that we've actually talked a little bit about this recently, not just you, but other people we've brought in other guests. This topic starts coming up, but you talked about the importance of perspective and learning that our perspective isn't the only one, and we talked we were talking about that, about how we're learning, how I don't know if you've heard this before about how we have different sets of ears, and inner ear and outer ear. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 23:36

So you know, I mean, we haven't so you know, I mean we haven't, but I, I'm, I'm learning, yeah, okay. So, like the like, your inner ear is like what you think, like when you hear yourself talking, that's what you feel. Like you sound like, yep. Your outer ear is like when you play back a recording. You're like, oh, I sound like that. No, yep, that's your outer.

Speaker 2: 23:53

I hate the way I sound when I talk. It's, that's exactly. Yeah, it's atrocious.

Speaker 1: 23:57

Yeah, me too, I'm out and and yeah, so you get it.

Speaker 3: 24:01

So it's the same thing.

Speaker 1: 24:01

We started realizing with eyes, like with our eyes, there's different perspectives. I see myself differently than than Mrs Killer Bee sees me. But then we also started talking about how, through our perspectives, we see the world differently than others. So can you elaborate, elaborate more on this, like where this came from in your life, where this started coming to your attention.

Speaker 2: 24:22

So I think one thing for me that was very valuable. I didn't think it was valuable as a kid. My dad was in the Air Force, so we didn't stick around and stay in many places for very long. So, like I remember, my wife actually asked me this the other day, like what was the shortest you ever lived anywhere? And I was like I can't remember, but I think we were at a base house for about a month and then we lived in a hotel for about a month and then we transferred into a house and we lived there for six months.

Speaker 2: 24:59

So I was everywhere, right, it was a very unique perspective to grow up on an Air Force base and then, in 1994, my dad retired from the Air Force and to jump out of that lifestyle and into the real world, so to speak. The real world, so to speak. So what I had seen was like how the world was done was like everybody loved everybody. You didn't see race, color, creed, nothing. It was just expected that everyone had mutual respect for everyone. And so I saw that perspective where everybody just got along and I thought that was awesome and I think it's a great place to be as a kid, honestly. And then when my dad left the Air Force and retired, he bought some property back home in Alabama and so I saw the world. The lens was very, very different than what I was used to, very different. I had heard some words that I did not even I didn't know existed when I went to public school, and I heard some things that I was like, yeah, I don't know what that means, but that's not okay, and so I guess the part of that unique perspective is we moved around a lot.

Speaker 2: 26:21

So I was born in South Carolina on an Air Force base, lived in Columbus, mississippi, on an Air Force base and Altus, oklahoma, on an Air Force base, and then suddenly I'm off of the Air Force base and I'm in the real world and we moved to Texas. But we're traveling around this whole time and we're meeting people from all over, and you know, the only way I know how to explain this is this you get on Facebook. It made the world really really small, really really fast, and everybody thinks and this is coming from a person that's lived in seven different states. I've lived in seven different states, I've traveled to almost all of them, and the United States is just a melting pot of culture, more so than anywhere else in the world.

Speaker 2: 27:06

But what I can say is this If you get on Facebook during the spring months, everyone will say oh man, your weather isn't like our weather. You know, wait five minutes and it'll be like this. And five minutes later it'll be like this, and five minutes later it'll be like that. Literally everyone in the United States of America thinks that their weather is more special than the other region's weather, like nah, Midwest weather is so true.

Speaker 2: 27:33

And it's not even a thing. It's like, guys, okay, number one, nobody's weather is as bad as Canada's. Theirs is terrible. Okay, new Hampshire, until you've walked around in negative 42 degrees with 60 mile an hour wind hitting you in the face, you don't know cold weather like they know it. So there are places where that is true, true, so, like everyone has this, and it's not an entitlement thing or anything like that. But everyone thinks, uh, that the world is, it's like, their bubble is, is, is special and different, and in a way, it's like, yes, it's special and in its own way, but you're also in a bubble, um, and the rest of the world is, is not like that. Oh, my arm just got really really far. How do I fix that?

Speaker 1: 28:24

I think my arm's moving. Is your house moving? Am I in an RV? What's going on?

Speaker 2: 28:32

so anyway, I forgot what I was saying because my arm just got 30 feet long, I thought I was in a bus.

Speaker 1: 28:37

You're talking about people being in bubbles, like everybody's in a small yeah, yeah, yeah. So we all kind of do, and even I thought I was in a bus. Again, you're talking about people being in bubbles.

Speaker 2: 28:41

Everybody's in a small bubble. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we all kind of do and even I do this to an extent, because I lived in Amarillo, texas, where it truly is some of the worst weather on the planet. I don't know why anyone lives there, except for the food is really really amazing.

Speaker 1: 28:57

And that's another thing.

Speaker 2: 28:59

Switch to the next subject. Switch to the next subject.

Speaker 3: 29:05

Switch to the next subject Like no real barbecue is here.

Speaker 2: 29:06

Real barbecue is there. I saw that the other day, oh yeah. So, uh, it kind of led to this whole like hey, like everyone has something special and different and beautiful about who they are and where they're from, um, and I. What I really love about the way I grew up is that I got to experience a lot of it. And, yeah, a lot of my friends from certain parts of the country think that there's things about where they live that's so much different and better and whatever, I wouldn't use the word the language better. I would say it's different and you should celebrate that because it's beautiful and we're all learning this together. So, anyway, I wouldn't use the word the language better. I would say it's different and you should celebrate that because it's beautiful and we're all learning this together. So, anyway, I don't even know if I answered the question. My 10-foot arm, totally knocked me off track.

Speaker 3: 29:49

That threw you. Well, if this makes you feel better, it didn't look that way to us, so we didn't even notice, so don't worry, we didn't even notice your arm.

Speaker 2: 29:59

Oh, okay, cool, my janky arm. It was like over near you, Mrs Killer Bee. I was like what is going?

Speaker 1: 30:04

on.

Speaker 2: 30:05

My arm looks like a water slide right now.

Speaker 3: 30:06

Yeah, I hate it when that happens. It's so distracting.

Speaker 1: 30:11

These are metaverse problems.

Speaker 2: 30:13

Yes, metaverse problems? I don't feel any pain afterwards.

Speaker 1: 30:17

I mean, you'd be good you don't have to do any stretches before you come in here.

Speaker 2: 30:21

We're learning.

Speaker 1: 30:22

Yeah, you got to learn not to use that smile.

Speaker 2: 30:26

I don't even know how to make it stop.

Speaker 1: 30:27

Yeah, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2: 30:29

It looks like a gerbil chipmunk thing, I don't even know.

Speaker 1: 30:34

Yes, please update the smiling, and the smile is meta, please meta no I think that was something that we were touching on about perspectives, like learning that, hey, it's okay that people have different perspectives. If we could get to that mindset and say, you know what we don't have to like, it doesn't mean I have to accept and adopt the way you see things. It's okay for us to have different perspectives, that's okay, just like what you're talking about here, about how it's okay. It's really a really good thing to get to the place and realize that it's okay that I don't know it all. Yeah, the whole time I'm reading this, there was a common theme and just a reminder if anybody has any questions or thoughts, just click those Q&A box right there behind you and we'll bring you up here.

Speaker 2: 31:17

Don't worry, because if I can't answer you, I've already told you I don't know everything.

Speaker 1: 31:21

And maybe you want to test his knowledge. Go right ahead and just and make sure you hang around the thing, cause he will be performing live after the interview. Though, there was a common theme the whole time as I, as I was reading this, and that theme was humility. That's what I continued to see.

Speaker 2: 31:41

I, it's humility, that's what I continue to see. I might have said that weird humility, like saying that it's like, it's okay. My mom is one of those. Forgive me for you, no, I'm not going to use the boomer word.

Speaker 3: 31:46

She says humble, and then I'm like there's an h in that word, mom well, wait a minute because of texas no, she's, she grew up in alabama because you know, maybe she heard about humble texas, maybe that's what it is Maybe she knew something I didn't know.

Speaker 2: 32:04

I thought it was Humble Texas. Maybe I'm the one that's wrong. I don't know everything.

Speaker 1: 32:09

We went to KSPJ radio and it was in Humble, texas. I get there and they're like they had to correct me it's actually pronounced Humble. I'm like what?

Speaker 3: 32:21

And you know what we said, joel, we're headed. We're headed to euston early today.

Speaker 2: 32:26

Yeah, they asked for that one, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 32:32

But yeah, that's, maybe that's why you should ask her.

Speaker 2: 32:34

You should ask her I'm gonna go to amarillo after this. Actually, that would have been correct. Well, the common theme that I saw.

Speaker 1: 32:41

the common theme that I saw was humility, and I see we have some Q&As coming up, so that's great. So we'll bring you guys up here in just a second. I'm going to ask you how has embracing the truth that you don't know everything, how has embracing that truth impacted your personal growth or your professional growth as a musician?

Speaker 2: 33:01

It's okay that when somebody asks you a question, to say I don't know, like that, and you can just lean in. You don't have to lean into anything. You can just relax and say you know, because my thing was I had to know everything. I loved knowing Kind of like you were talking about. I loved having an answer for everything. I loved knowing kind of like you were talking about. I loved having an answer for everything. And then when I found that I didn't have an answer for everything, especially when it comes to my faith or when somebody I'll give you an example.

Speaker 2: 33:33

I've had people come up to me after a show in places and tell me about how their kid has cancer.

Speaker 2: 33:39

I had a woman come up to me and tell me that she'd driven four hours to come to my show in Green Bay, wisconsin, and the month before her son or not her son her husband and two children were killed in a car crash and came up to me to thank me for a song that I had written that had helped her get through. And that's not a go Joel moment, that's more of a like oh man, this is real. People listen to my music, they're going through actual things and I don't know what to say to this other than I'm going to pray for you right now, and I did. It doesn't make me some amazing human being, it just means like I don't know what the answers are in life for things like that, and I only know what I know and what I believe. I believe that God is good and that he's sovereign and that there's there's purpose in pain, and we may not see it this side of heaven, but as a human, I'm just going to be here with you, right now.

Speaker 2: 34:44

It's okay that we don't know.

Speaker 1: 34:46

That's good, okay, joe, I want to ask you another question here, because this is a part that really that really got to me. Here in your post, you were encouraging others to speak up and and share you know, share their experiences, even if they feel out of place. Has anybody here ever felt out of place Like you, felt like you wanted to share something, but for some reason you were just scared to anybody? Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, I see hands coming up. Yes, uh, I mean, I've been there too and you wrote this. This is exactly what you wrote, just in case you don't remember.

Speaker 2: 35:16

Yep, um, it says um you wrote you wrote.

Speaker 1: 35:19

I don't know everything, but I do know what I know. My experience is valid and so is yours. So what I want to ask you is what advice would you give to others who are struggling or or feel that are feeling unheard or dismissed, like what advice would you give to others?

Speaker 2: 35:43

Man, this is a tough one, cause I do know what I know. I have been in situations, usually in the context of being on staff at a church for me personally but I have been in situations where I've felt, uh, not heard and not not, just not seen, just not not heard, and also not validated, uh and. And that I felt like there's a, there's a pretty big glass ceiling here in this place, and not just in a professional way, but in a. I remember I had a very tough conversation with a person, a pastor, who asked me, you know, I had stepped out of ministry on staff at a church and into full-time music ministry. It was my first go at it 10 years ago. I mean, I've been in music ministry for over 20 years but, like you know, this is my income now kind of thing. And he asked me you know, like why didn't you stick around? You know, why didn't you stay here? And I said you know, your perspective was skewed for me and I don't think that it can change, and I'm hoping that it can change. And it was probably a little bit of a pessimistic answer, to be totally honest at the time, but it was probably true.

Speaker 2: 37:02

I was like, dude, have you ever and I'm super into coffee, I know a lot about coffee, I love coffee I was like have you ever and you have have you ever made a cup of coffee? You know, you put the filter in, you put the grinds in, you, you know, pour the water over it. Whether you have a pour over or you have a machine, that's how it works. You grind the beans or you get ground coffee, put it in the filter and then the water pours over it. Coffee comes out. The way that I feel that you see me is through a coffee filter me is through a coffee filter, and once that has changed, once that goes from a clear, life-giving water and it turns into brown, life-giving coffee, the way you see me it would be very hard to change and I don't know how to do that for you.

Speaker 2: 37:59

So I had to remove myself from this space because I felt like, until until you could see me the way that I had wanted you to, that it just my, not my, time. I guess my time here didn't make a whole lot of sense, and so he was like he respectfully understood when I told him that, and you know it was one of those, like you know, good luck with life, good luck to you, praying for you, hope all goes well, kind of thing. And I would like to say that that was a situation where I was like, all right, we're all good. But like, what I found was I um, got lost in thought, but like I, I found that him seeing me that way, uh and and I know I'm leaving out a lot of facts and a lot of context here, so it's like track with me, but that I can't change his perspective on me. I can give him more information, but that's only going to go so far as he wants to receive it.

Speaker 2: 39:07

Right, the only thing I can do is work on me place and I'm in a situation where I feel like I'm not being heard, where I feel like I'm not safe, or I feel like I can't go any higher, or that I feel like God is calling me to do something totally different, and that space, that place, those people are not allowing you to do it. You have a body, you are a person, you are a soul and a body and you can take yourself somewhere else where you can thrive, and for me that was all right. Full-time Christian music. Let's go.

Speaker 2: 39:47

And I would like to say that in that time that everybody has looked at me and validated me and thought that Joel's songs are all amazing and that Joel's career is this and that, and look at all the things that he's done. But not everybody's impressed by Joel and that's okay. I can lay my head down and go, huh, I didn't get nominated for a double award this year. Cool, it's not that I don't care, not in a pessimistic way. It's like I don't tie my self-worth and my value into my accomplishments anymore.

Speaker 3: 40:24

Yes, that's so good.

Speaker 2: 40:26

I've been down that road, and it's not to say that I don't have the bin to want to do that again, because anytime I've had some level of success, like anytime I have a radio song, for instance, it gets run up the flagpole and then it starts climbing up the chart. You know, the danger is to start going like, oh, it's moving up to 30 this week, it's up to 25. Oh, no, it's dropped down to 32. Oh man, I'm a terrible songwriter, I'm a terrible. This and that's not even true, you know. Like it's just that that's a whole other thing. But the the fact of the matter is like, once you start tying in your self-worth and your value into the thing that you do, you forget that you're a human being, not a human doing.

Speaker 1: 41:13

I remember, you know, when we think about our parents and our grandparents and how they get to a point in their life where they look back and they say you know, they try to teach us not to focus so much on chasing work, so much that they missed out on things that they wish they would have been a part of about, even on social media, how much we can find ourselves posting this stuff to try to get validation from people around the world that we don't even know they don't care.

Speaker 1: 41:43

They don't care. Are we getting to the point where, later in life, this younger generation and even our generations here that are on social media so much, are we going to look back and regret the time and energy that we spent trying to prove how much we know or how valid, how value we are, how valuable we are to people that doesn't matter around the world? Are we going to look back and regret how much we missed in life right around us, with the people closest to us chasing those things on social media, those things on social media? So I think that it's such an important thing for us to take away being okay with. Hey, it's okay if I don't know everything. It's okay if people say you know what? Mr Killer Bee, you don't know everything. You're right, that's a good place to be in.

Speaker 2: 42:31

I'm not a nuclear physicist.

Speaker 1: 42:32

What, what? Mrs Killer Bee tells me all the time that I'm wrong. Right, I split atoms all the time.

Speaker 3: 42:41

It's my job to keep you humble.

Speaker 2: 42:45

There it is, that's good, that's good.

Speaker 1: 42:48

What is a takeaway you would hope people would leave here today with that's here live or people listening to the podcast.

Speaker 2: 42:54

I've probably already said it, but you are a human being, not a human doing. You don't know everything. Neither do I, and that's okay, because we have all of our lives to learn, and that's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 1: 43:09

Yes, amen, amen, and you can take that to the bank with about anything.

Speaker 3: 43:16

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